Saturday, June 02, 2007

biological history

As an adoptee I wanted to know medical history and I wanted to know what people, that I was blood related to, looked like. But when I read that people are missing out on their "biological history" I wonder....what does it matter? Who cares. That's just me.

People are sensative about too many things. I know some adoptees
have problems but is it all related to them being adopted? I don't know. People will have problems, people adopted and biological will have things that are wrong in their lives....I just can't see blaming adoption.

When you get married you become one....flesh of my flesh. My in-laws are parents, my SILs and BILs are my siblings. When you are adopted it's the same. You take on all the relatives as your own....your not "blood realted" but it doesn't matter. I never had a grandma but when I married (just dating even), I got two grandmas and they were awesome....they could not have been closer if they were "blood related"......

I feel very sorry for people biologically raised or adopted that do not feel close to their family.....is that adoption's fault?

38 comments:

Being Me said...

Adding to your family, through marriage etc is ADDING.

ADDING is different than MISSING. Get it?

Tishslp said...

I can't speak for other people. I certainly can't speak for other people, in this case adoptees, regarding the role biological hisotry does or doesn't play in their life.

I CAN say that knowing my biological history did not keep me from growing up feeling isolated and misunderstood. Knowing my biological history did not keep me from being abused. Knowing my biological history did not keep me from having emotional and behavioral issues as I grew up. Sometimes, the thing you think will make your life complete is just a thing.....seeking God and allowing myself His peace was more than any thing could have done for me.

petunia said...

being me,
no, I don't get it--that is my point.... "adding" getting married - you become one person...you love that person with everything in you. It's really the same with adoption....it's supposed to be....that's what distinguishes good parents from bad parents/ good spouses from bad.

tish,
well put

Trace said...

Hmmm... I hear what you are saying and I hear what Being Me is saying. And I think that like anything it totally depends on the person. For example, I have a friend who joined her family through adoption and she had no desire to seek our her biological family, but her adoptive brother did. In comparison, neither me or my husband were adopted, but when I think about my husband he REALLY values his heredity. We went back to Ireland so he could see where his roots were from and meet his extended family. I on the other hand have no interest in it. Sure, I'm English and German but that's about it.

My opinion (that's all it is), I do feel that it will be up to us make sure we are as open about our future childs history as possible and capable of. It is in our hands to make sure that it is not an off limits topic, offer as much assistance as humanly possible, and not feel threatened. I don't know that if someone doesn't feel close to their family that it is adoptions fault. It could be the adoptive families fault or just as easily a biological family because maybe that family isn't a family that fosters closeness and openness. Ya know?

Tishslp said...

Trace: good points :)

BTW, I'm German and English, too :)
So is DH. He spends HOURS tracing both of our roots on the computer. I dearly love my family, adored my grandparents, but really don't have any interest in knowing about long dead people I won't ever meet in this world. Maybe because I believe that we will have eternity to catch up one day affects this...dunno.

Trace, I think you're right. It's up to APs to be as open and honest as they can with the information they have and then the rest really is up to the recipient of that information. I think most of the issues currently "debated" in adoption circles are individual positions. That's why people are so sure their position is right because we all know an adoptee or bparent or aparent who had a particular experience. In our heatedness, we all forget sometimes that EVERYONE touched by adoption is a different person and will react in a different way. Add to that the fact that for every adoption there is a triad of dynamics and the number of positions on the topics are infinite.

GDS said...

Petunia - I know exactly where you're coming from. This is the same kind of example I use when explaining how a family can be created with adopted members, particularly when members have different heritage. Adoption is a very normal and accepted thing in my immediate family. But go beyond that and not everyone gets it. Some folks just see us as being good people from providing a home for a child, but they really don't believe us that our daughter will be our daughter.

It's amazing how many people unfamiliar with adoption really don't understand how people can bond when they are not blood related. I'm sure we all know a lot of married couples that just never totally bonded. The same can be true with biological children.

When this happens, things can often turn out worse than just a dis-functional family. Who's fault is this? I really depends on the situation.

Being Me said...

It seems odd that so simple a distinction as adding vs subtracting is not clear here.

Of course I don't buy the idea that I have become one person in marriage. I and my husband are two different people, different personalities, different health concerns, different hobbies, etc. There is intimacy and communication physically, emotionally and mentally. On the spiritual level there is oneness. But not one person. Maybe this is a vocab issue?

A different aspect is the "blame game" referred to in a couple comments.

Adoption is fraught with difficulties and often misunderstandings. Really looking at what it IS does not require blaming anyone for the disfunctions that accumulate. Looking with compassion may motivate one to action, to relieve suffering if possible.

Miss said...

Don't you ever have anything original to say? Isn't this just the same freaking thing you say EVERY day.... "Adoption isn't the cause of your problems so stop whining?" Oh, but of course you wrap it all in a package of artifice and cloying duplicity with a nice God-approved bow on the top to give you that sanctimonious protection that you clearly have enough sense to realize you DO in fact need.

You really aren't too bright, are you. (Note the ommision of the question mark at the end of that statement.)

Read it again. You just might understand it the second time around.

snort

Kippa said...

Your wrote, "Who cares?"
The answer is lots of people. So who are are you to write them off?
No matter how you may feel about it, history is an objective truth that can be ignored or pretended away, but which will never truly go away.
It's always there, even if it's standing in the shadows.
And whether you believe it or not, some people really do feel a sense of loss because they were obliged to grow up without the experience of being a part of their original family.

Anther thing. Unlike marriage, the act of adoption has no quasi-mystical connotations. There's no "flesh of my flesh" business. It's a legal arrangement pure and simple.

" you become one person...It's really the same with adoption....it's supposed to be....that's what distinguishes good parents from bad parents/ good spouses from bad."
Dang me. And to think I thought good loving allowed for separateness and individuality. I didn't realise it was mean to to be an all-engulfing maw. I guess that makes me a bad wife, mother and a-mother then. Oh goody.

LeRoy Dissing said...

If I were adopted (which I am not), I would wonder about who my biological parents were and why I was adopted out. I know not everyone may think that way and thats okay if they don't, but to me it would be natural to want to know...Having not been adopted, I don't know how the adoption experience would affect me. Somethings you just don't know how you would react to unless you experience them.

I try to respect everyone's feelings and opinions regarding adoption as I would want them to respect mine...of which I am still forming. I do see everyone on a journey and some are at different places than others and quite possibly on different paths.

I also think it natural to want to know about one's genetic and family medical history. I also know that if given the choice, I would want to see my original birth certificate, find my parents and any siblings out there. My quest to find my bio-parents/family in no way would diminish the feelings I had/have for the adoptive parents who raised me. Again, not being adopted, this is all speculative.

And why do I speculate over this? Because if I were a sperm donor, which I am not and would not be, I would always wonder about the children produced...I see a correlation and a responsibility.

petunia said...

gds and being me--- thank you for being gracious and understanding my meaning. You oviously can see that I said - "that's me". I just don't get it but, that's me. I don't say everyone must feel this way....

I don't think many adoptees that were infants and are of the same race as their adopted parents are as concerned about their biological roots. I think if the child is internationally adopted or has foreign roots/a different race as their aparents are more curious (rightly so). I think "feeling a loss" if adopted as an infant is something pshychologists stick on people with problems. Children adopted after 8 months to a year could feel some loss but nothing they can honestly remember. Children that are older and adopted will surely have abandonment issues.


Kippa,
I agree with you on a lot of things but we have to agree to disagree on some. I agree everyone is different, all situations are different. People are intitled to their own feelings....I don't deny them of that. I just don't get "missing out on biological history" - and that's okay. There are others that feel the same and that's okay too.

Just because I am "one" with my husband - does not mean we are anything alike----this is a family thing. We are one--one blood, family. I think this is what made it better for me and what's better for our daughter. It also does NOT mean I will assume anything about my daughter's feelings.

Miss...
I guess it's okay for all of you to beat the same drum but the same rules don't apply if I differ in opinion....
Your ignorance makes me laugh.

Miss said...

Interesting. You compare the decision of an adult who chooses to engage in the sacrament of formalizing their life-long commitment to a soul-mate, (Chooses. As in. Makes a sentient life-choice on behalf of their own existence.) to that of a baby being removed from its parents in order to be raised by strangers? Am I reading you right?

Oh, this is good. Sooo... good. I hope you (or whichever organization you represent) keep blogging for a LOOONG time.

petunia said...

Leroy,
I agree about wanting to know info - I did...some don't and that's okay. But it's all the biological history that people feel they have "missed out on". I don't know, maybe this is all arguing symantics....I'm not emotional person and it's hard for me to understand people who are over-sensative.

The birth certificate thing is strange - My husband has never (nor will ever) see his original BC - they just don't do that....there are no copies. If you want a BC you write the state and they send you a certified copy....

petunia said...

gds and being me--- thank you for being gracious and understanding my meaning. You oviously can see that I said - "that's me". I just don't get it but, that's me. I don't say everyone must feel this way....

I don't think many adoptees that were infants and are of the same race as their adopted parents are as concerned about their biological roots. I think if the child is internationally adopted or has foreign roots/a different race as their aparents are more curious (rightly so). I think "feeling a loss" if adopted as an infant is something pshychologists stick on people with problems. Children adopted after 8 months to a year could feel some loss but nothing they can honestly remember. Children that are older and adopted will surely have abandonment issues.


Kippa,
I agree with you on a lot of things but we have to agree to disagree on some. I agree everyone is different, all situations are different. People are intitled to their own feelings....I don't deny them of that. I just don't get "missing out on biological history" - and that's okay. There are others that feel the same and that's okay too.

Just because I am "one" with my husband - does not mean we are anything alike----this is a family thing. We are one--one blood, family. I think this is what made it better for me and what's better for our daughter. It also does NOT mean I will assume anything about my daughter's feelings.

Miss...
I guess it's okay for all of you to beat the same drum but the same rules don't apply if I differ in opinion....
Your ignorance makes me laugh.

Miss said...

Oh, yes! My IGNORANCE!

(we are all having a good laugh at that one, over here)

EXCELLENT! Keep it up! Don't actually address the issue, but denounce the person of 'differing opinion' as IGNORANT!

OH! But those who AGREE with you are wise, sensitive, and rest in the "Light of God". Oh, but lest Ye Angree Adoptees DWELL in the fire of hell."

Wait! I get it now! JOhn 3:16

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son..." That PERFECTLY aligns with your pro-adoption propoganda doesn't it! It practically gives you the RIGHT to dismiss 'ignorant' adoptees, doesn't it? Good thing your version of Christianity gives you a free-pass to say and do ANYTHING to other human beings. Because after all, once you've accepted Christ as your personal savior, it doesn't really matter WHAT you do in this life, does it?

Do you have the SLIGHTEST of ideas how moronic and hypocritical you sound?? See... there was once this little kettle, and it was BLACK...

Rich. Tooo rich.

petunia said...

miss, there you go, whining again...

Read it again, A woman GAVE us her child to raise as our own and she is now our family....try to keep up.

Miss said...

Oh, honeybun... you have NO idea.

See, if you TRULY weren't so obviously defended, just waiting to POUNCE on my next comment, you wouldn't be rising to this very easy bait I'm setting for you.

And as for keeping up, that might hold just a wee bit more credibility if you weren't mirroring my own words.

Don't you realize what you're doing? No, you probably don't. And I hope you don't for quite some time.

petunia said...

Did I write that anyone was "resting in the Light of God"?
You are making things up....and lashing out at me....
Talk about moronic and hypocritical...

You can't even identify yourself....hmmm...that says so much about you.

Miss said...

Identify myself???

BWWWWWAAAHAHAHAHAAA


And who are YOU, Miss Petunia. You're doing this on purpose, right? I mean... you can't HONESTLY be this obtuse, right??

As for 'Resting in the Light of God'. I DO owe you a heart-felt apology. You see, I SHOULD have placed that phrase in single quotes, 'like this'. Because the purpose of a 'single quote' is actually a literary device used to indicate the notion of irony, (See previous comment regarding the definition of irony.) whereby you are indicating that the phrase in question is actually meant to represent something other than the truth.

For example; were I to say, "Petunia represents the 'epitome' of the ideals set by the life of Christ.", I will have effectively demonstrated the difference between a literal quotation and single quotes being used to indicate irony. Are you with me so far, darlin'?

So. My apology is for the fact that "Resting in the Light of God", should have read 'Resting in the Light of God.' (Apologies to God) The first instance, which you so correctly highlighted, falsely indicated that I meant to quote you, whereas this second instance shows that I am merely providing an imaginary construct to sum up the attitude in which you write so many of your posts.

You know, I don't know about you. But I am having SO much fun! Thank Heavens I found you! There is no doubt that the Lord led me here.

petunia said...

You need medication miss...

Miss said...

And you, My Dear Love... are so generously providing it.

Tishslp said...

Could we get back to the issue in question rather than this rabid, frothing at the mouth, hateful comments thing? As I recall, the question from Petunia was....why is "biological history" so important to some adoptees? She doesn't feel that way and knows others who do.

I wrote that knowing my biological history didn't do much for me, in childhood or now. But, Leroy brings up a good point, which is that, since I'm not an adoptee, it's all speculative.

Maybe you hit it on the head, P, when you said you're not an emotional person. So, it's not so much of an issue for you. It's true, too, that your dd may feel differently.

Interesting post, P. Good points.... :)

Miss said...

Brava, tishslp! (In all sincerity)

You, have so deftly captured the essence of the matter. I am certainly willing to engage in meaningful discusion if Petunia is. You might want to have a word with her about that.

The thing about biology that I find so fascinating, is that there is no denying the vast movement of humankind to want to return to their roots. Geneology, family trees, travelling to the place of one's ancestors, RESPECTING one's ancestors, family portraits of antecedents we've never met hanging on our living room walls... these are valid quests, are they not? Family crests, family heirlooms... these things are all rooted in one's sense of history. When one is raised by their biological family, nobody questions these things as being anything other than completely rational. IN fact, it's seen as respectful. A meaningful thing to do.

Somehow though, when someone is given away for adoption, these things are suddenly meaningless.

Why the dichotomy?

petunia said...

At least someone has some class....thanks tishslp, I'm begining to think MISS is not part of the triad at all....just a trouble maker.

Miss said...

Not unlike what people say about you, Miss P.

Hmmmm.... now where is that pot???

Miss said...

TISHSLP, sorry, just thought of one more thing.

Before I found out I was adopted at the age of 29, I thought I was Russian. My parents who raised me were Russian, Russian was my first language, I learned to cook Russian cuisine as I thought this was my cultural heritage, I spent summers in Russia once the cold-war ended, and everyone applauded me. Because I was showing such an interest in my heritage.

Suddenly, as an adult, I learned that I was in fact not Russian. I was Italian. What a shake-up. It was huge. All of a sudden, I wanted to learn more about my Italian heritage. Because, it turned out the blood running through my veins actually came from somewhere else. To me, it mattered. Regardless of how good or bad my life may have been, it mattered.

The weird thing though, was how indignant people became at the notion of me learning more about my Italian heritage. I don't get that, you know? If am supposed to be the same person no matter what. NO matter who raised me, what DNA I carry, what country I come from... then why on earth would anyone be bothered by the idea of me wanting to learn more about it. It doesn't make sense. If my parents actually believed that raising me as an adoptee is NO different than having raised me as their bio child... then an intellectual discovery of my history should not have uspet anybody. Because it would change nothing.

Tishslp said...

Miss:

1. Petunia WAS engaging in meaningful dialogue. It appears that the dialogue was distasteful to you, but that does not mean it was distasteful to others.

2. Nobody has said that putting up pictures of ancestors or hanging onto family heirlooms is wrong or that no one is interested in it. It is not meaningful to me, therefore I don't have the afore mentioned items in my home. That does not, however, mean that I think you shouldn't have them or that they aren't meaningful to you. Petunia never said that you shouldn't be interested in your biological history. She said that she doesn't understand why some are and some aren't and that her blog is just her opinion.

3. That just sucks that your aparents didn't want you to research your history as someone with Italian roots. That would probably make me angry, too, and I'm truly sorry you didn't get that support that you deserve.

4. In all sincerity, Miss, what is your purpose for commenting on Petunia's blog? Is it for education. Because I'm sorry, hon, but any educational points you might have made are entirely obscured by your hostility and antagonistic attitude. Is it because you think you'll change Petunia's mind? I highly doubt that you would and should you? Isn't that what you want? The right to make your own decisions? You can't advocate for your own right and ignore that same right for someone else. Does what she writes bother you? That's easy....don't visit the blog.

Seriously, if you would identify the reason that you're here, you might find that some meaningful and respectful discussions can take place. Otherwise, it's all just words......

GDS said...

First, let me clarify, I should not have said "Who's fault is this?" - I'm not looking to blame. What I should have said was simply "why is this?" Meaning it seems like an oversimplification to take a family problem and blame the fact that an adoption took place. There are clearly adoption rooted problems, but bad parenting, drugs, alcohol abuse, etc - take place in adoptive homes where adoption itself has nothing to do with the awful situation.

Miss shared part of her story. It's not clear whether she blames adoption for the trouble in her life, but clearly it was wrong to withhold her heritage from her until she was almost 30! Not being adopted, I just can't imagine or related. I hope you are were able to learn more about your Italian heritage. Don't let your family discourage you from doing so.

And that gets back to the point of what bonding is about. It had nothing at all to do with becoming a different person, forsaking your own geneology and heritage.

Where Petunia is spot on is where we APs and PAPs strive (or at least should strive) to create a strong family through adoption. Just like in marriage, we are different blood and background, but one family. It does not mean we ignore the loss that takes place. And it certainly does not mean we advocate taking children from their mothers. But the similarities between marriage and adoption do exist.

Where the analogy is imperfect is that marriage has both willing participants and adoption includes minor that really did not choose her family. But a family can be created from that situation, I've seen it happen over and over again.

petunia said...

"Because, it turned out the blood running through my veins actually came from somewhere else"
do you know how strange that sounds? blood running through your veins? Come on.
I know curiousity about your heritage is normal but you are taking it a bit far.

I found my bios, I found out what their background was, pictures of relatives....it was interesting to know....I'm not against finding out information and being curious.

It would be disappointing to find out after all this time you were seeking after a heritage that was really not your bio's but interesting to find out about another. You should be able to embrace both....
It's a shame the whole experience has made you be the way you are.

Miss said...

See, this is where you show your prejudice. Because the fact is, I ADORE my life! I LOVE my life! I wouldn't change a single thing about it. I am the person I am; strong, confident, opinionated, successful, loved as a result of every choice I've ever made, and as the result of things that just happened. There is not a single ounce of 'woe is me' in any aspect of my life.

I just think it's sad that you pick on unhappy people, and pretend to wrap it in some insightful, caring package. I have little tolerance for bullies, and I have never seen anything on this site that resembles original content. You've demonstrated that you are excellent at copying, pasting, linking, and judgement. Not much else.

Again, I still can't believe you are wasting time on engaging me if you truly feel so secure in your opinions. However, I'm happy to keep this up, because my thesis writing gets a bit draining, and this is a much more entertaining diversion than any sitcom, to be sure!

Anyhow, as for 'blood running through my veins', again, I apologize, for once again I've apparently overestimated your comprehension of subtext. It was something called 'metaphor', and is meant as a figurative rather than literal turn of phrase. Do let me know if I should stick to single syllables.

One last thing, you really should learn more about how your blog works, because, in point of fact I do NOT have a blogger account, nor does anyone need one in order to post here. There's also something called a variable IP address, you might also want to learn about that if you plan on continuing your distribution of vitriol

Best!
Miss

petunia said...

Miss - you sound a little manic...

you are still on MY blog, so who is obsessing here? and I know all about the variable IP address...it's a coward's way to make asanine comments and pretend you have something important to say.

You are making yourself look rather foolish.

Miss said...

My in-box says something quite different.

Again, keep up the good work in this very public setting.

(clapping wildly!)

Let's see how many times I can make you respond... this Pavlovian response experiment is paying off rather nicely!

Back to you, mi amore.

Mischka

petunia said...

ahhh, you love me.

Kippa said...

" I just don't get "missing out on biological history" - and that's okay."
It would be more OK if it didn't contradict what you said about having your medical information (what's that, if not part of your biological history?), and to be able to see familial resemblences (same thing).
"As an adoptee I wanted to know medical history and I wanted to know what people, that I was blood related to, looked like."
Getting this information was obviously of some importance to you. It may not be the whole kit and caboodle, but it's an significant part of knowing where you came from (aka "biological history").

I'm not sure how much you realise it, but "Who cares?" denigrates those who do. It implies that because *you* don't care (or at least claim not to), anyone who does is just using adoption as a convenient whipping-boy to excuse other difficulties they may have in their lives.
In other words, "Who cares?" is shorthand for "I don't give a damn about anyone whose opinions differ from my own. I know best."
Which makes the disclaimer "That's just me" ring rather hollow.

Remember too that marriage is a contract between two willing adult parties. Not so adoption. That's a one-way thing.

"I feel very sorry for people biologically raised or adopted that do not feel close to their family.....is that adoption's fault?"
Personally, I do believe that feeling close or otherwise to one's family is something qualitatively rather different from the almost existential sense of disconnect described by some adoptees.

Tishslp said...

Uhm, again, what is the purpose of the argue and bait tactics, here? It's pretty clear to me that P isn't going to change her mind or what she writes on her blog whether you like what she has to say or not.

P is one blogger in a world of almost infinite numbers of bloggers. Her opinion certainly can't take anything away from adoptees as a group. It's like returning to the same grain of sand on the beach to argue why it shouldn't be there.

It really seems as if it would be more productive (not to mention conducive to meaningful dialogue for those of us left here) to simply ignore her and continue to post your experiences and values on your own blog.

petunia said...

Kippa, the problem is people are reading in too much to what I write. I will write something because I get upset at another person's blog. Some broad statement of anti adoption that get's my dander up- instead of writing mean insulting things to them in their comments (clearing throat loudly), I will write about it on my own blog -- blogger IS an on-line journal is it not?
Maybe POPs and people who are not anti-adoption agree with what I say or understand me...

And just so you know, many marriages in the world are not chosen and/or "willing love matches. That is a concept that is fairly new in the sceme of things. So a binding marriage may not start off something that was chosen but something chosen for them. My friend from India didn't even know his wife until the day they were married....they are very happy now. This IS a good analogy. But this too - is arguing semantics. There are happy people and people who are unhappy. The "sense of disconnect" is felt by those adopted but also felt by biological children...how is that explained? Does adoption cause that feeling or is something else in play? We can't really know for sure. You all know how I feel.

When I speak of adoption I mean infant adoptions....there is another whole impact on kids that are internationally adopted or come from abusive homes and are removed by the state.

petunia said...

Tishslp, If Miss has her own blog (which you know she does)...she's too much of a coward to share it. She tries to turn it around and gives her e-mail address...I could care less. I want to read her thought on her blog--whoever she is....I don't want an e-mail address. It's funny to me that she is here...she thinks she can bother me. She's the one that's digging her own hole. She sounds disturbed and in need of medication. I deleted some of her really crazt comments.....because I can.

Tishslp said...

Thanks for the input, P. I still don't understand the need to antagonize and bait...maybe I'm the one who's slow on the uptake....guess I won't be getting an answer to my questions, though....