Monday, April 30, 2007

I'm not buying it...maybe I do

I read on another blog( I changed the name of the city):
Ok look if I moved to Dublin this year, and I love Dublin, and I lived there for 1,000,0000 years, I would never be Irish, I would always feel a bit on the outside, I would assimiliate, I would make great friends and have fun times and awful times, just like I would here, I would encounter a prejudice against Americans, I would attach but never become one of.
Okay, what>? I don't understand this analogy at all to prove her point. This was written by an unhappy adoptee and I understand this is the way she feels...she never felt like she fit in, i get it. I honestly believe this is her a parents faults. Her family - they may have even talked all the time about being adopted--- that's the problem. (revised to not sound so mean: I don't know this person and have no idea what her aparents are like....maybe it was her neighbor's fault or the other people she knew...shame on anyone that didn't let her feel "included")

In a way I guess this makes sense because in the mass exodus of Europe to America many people encountered bad experiences and they never felt at home in America....some returned. However, the millions of people that are in America today are desendants of people who found America better than their homeland, they felt more American than the other Americans did. During Cromwell's rein he sent English troops to gaurd the Irish but they were not allowed to talk to them or buy from them, etc. They became more Irish than the Irish themselves...embracing the culture and the people and stayed. They assimilated so well.....hmmm. We are just people then, everyone different....everyone has a different experience! Wow, that WAS a good analogy of adoption! We all have different experiences....


Anonymous said...

Okay it is me the one you quoted.

It is weird how you say you are nice and happy all the time but your actions are very other than nice and happy.

you blame my aparents. That is awful.

You owe me an apology, you owe my aparents an apology, truly another example of your mean spirited-ness.

I don't believe in you, nice people don't act the way you do.



Anonymous said...

You are talking about the descendants of the immigrants that became at home in America not the immigrants themselves.
Joy's analogy stands.
It's not exactly rocket science here.
But way to manipulate the facts.
Nice try.
What exactly are you trying to prove anyway?
And who exactly is your audience?
Because all I see here is you being a bully.

Anonymous said...

And p.s. miss nicey nice, I have never compared my adad to a toilet or my amom to barbed wire

that is YOU

Anonymous said...

Uh Oh Petunia?
A toilet and a barb wire?
You're not ANGRY are you?

Anonymous said...

You're not insightful at all.

You have no knowledge of anyone's family. To blast someone's adoptive parents is a horrible, hateful thing to do.

Matthew 7:1-3
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

petunia said...

First of all - this is MY blog....i did not go on your blogs (not that i could to miss "anonymous") and leave any nastly messages did I? I read it and it got me thinking....I know many people from other countries who have embraced America as their own and have no desire to go back. I am not talking their decendants, but them. I am not being mean to anyone, how am I being mean on my own blog talking about the analogy i read....but I cannot say the same about all of all of are the ones coming and leaving anonymous messages about how mean I am.
. dad's name is John and my mom's is barb----duh

petunia said...

No one had anything to say about the selfish post before this one I noticed....

Mia said...

I'll see your rainbow and raise you a pony.

Visiting Ellis Island was one of the hardest experiences I have ever had. Honoring and embracing our history is what this country is founded upon. However, MANY of us struggle with not feeling comfortable owning EITHER heritage; our birthright nor our "assimilated" one. What are we Borgs?

Addie Pray said...

Petunia, you are amazing. You have actually managed to misunderstand a point well made in such an obtuse manner that I am aghast. Exactly how is it that you are capable of reading things with such a jaundiced eye? Your perspective is so wicked, so utterly sad, that I am worried for your mental health.

Have you considered therapy, if not for your self, for the good of your child and family. Such a desperate and unkind attitude has to wear heavily on all those around you.

Please, please, try to come into the light.

petunia said...

addie, all are the one's that amaze me and read mt thoughts with a strange perspective. You are all the one's that can't stand when people are mean to you yet you still come onto MY blog and act this way? tisk tisk tisk...

BB Church said...

"They became more Irish than the Irish themselves...embracing the culture and the people and stayed. They assimilated so well.....hmmm."

They assimilated so well that even today they march to celebrate past battles in which they subjugated the native Irish. It's only been in the past few years that the descendants of this "assimilation" agreed to lay down arms against one another.

petunia said...

Have you been there? We were at The castle at Kilkenny and talked to the townspeople....there were decendants of those people that "became more Irish than the Irish themselves" ...they were English (some of my dhs relatives as a matter of fact) but embraced Ireland as their own --this is SOUTH ireland NOT northern Ireland - again....proving there are people that are different - just like in adoption.

BB Church said...

I've been in the North. I have a friend, an adoptee in California, who reconnected with his first family. Turns out his dad is the Earl of Tyrone (his mom was a servant girl). As it turns out, his mom and dad married after he was relinquished. They wanted to adopt him back into the family, since he's the male heir... Unfortunately, the IRA was in the habit of assassinating titled Protestant heirs, and my friend had no dynastic ambitions. My friend was a Unitarian, his first dad, CoE and his first mom, RC. It was very complicated...

Anonymous said...

My family came from Italy and embraced the American way of life. They even "Americanised" their names. They also spoke Italian within their home, shopped at special stores that carried foods from their homeland, continued to believe in their old wives tales, prayed to God in Italian, played boccie with their friends and relatives, had the same prejudices they had in the "old country" and lived an Italian in America life. I can't imagine how sad a life they would have lived had they been told they must never be Italian again. They must embrace only their new American culture and completely discard the old. Forget their genetic codes, the likes and dislikes bred through thousands of years in the Mediterranean. They must somehow make themselves tall and thin with narrow hips or they will be seen as different. They must assimilate.

GDS said...

I think some folks are not getting the real meaning of assimilate. It has nothing to do with forsaking or forgetting one's roots, heritage, or customs. It has to do with making ones surrounding their own. Adjusting those customs to match what's available and in some cases - advantageous in their new environments. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion or appearance.

Italians (in fact all Europeans) didn't even use tomatoes until they arrive in the new world and incorporated them into their cuisine. Same is true for corn and potatoes. In other areas, Italians had great influence on American society and culture. Assimilation works both ways.

But still, you can tell the difference between Americans with Italian background and those with Irish background. I have in-laws from both backgrounds. Let me tell you they are both very unique, but still very American.

My ancestors arrived around 1700, and immediately "english-ised" their names. So "we" have been here way longer than most groups. But I still value that heritage and do not consider myself any more American than the guy in the cube down the hall who just became a citizen a couple of years ago. He practices a completely different religion then me, eats totally different food, and talks funny. But he's making a home here and while he misses where he came from, he does not look back with regret because this is his place now.

petunia said...

Thank you - this really got out of hand but It made me think - you could use this analogy both ways. Maybe there are some people who don't "fit in" ... I still think that's someone's fault (even if it's their own, maybe it's their personality and they wouldn't "fit in" even in their biological family)
Anyway, I have always embraced my adopted heritage...I considered myself Irish (which it turned out that I was) and look at the old pictures and point out my grandparents and great grandparents. It was nice to see pictures of the biogrands but I didn't feel a connection with them at all.

Being Me said...

Dear Pet,
Normally I walk away from trainwrecks like this.

But this time one of my loved ones was involved. It was my daughter you quoted with seemingly great misunderstanding.

Were you trying to mock her? From what you wrote I can't be sure what your aim was.

To make allegations against her aparents, people you have NO knowledge of was disrespectful and insulting -- and then to follow up with more allegations and placing blame on someone/anyone, is certainly less than "kind".

I simply ask that in the future if you need to quote others to make a point, quote only those in support of your point. Otherwise MYOB sweetie.

Michelle said...

"I considered myself Irish (which it turned out that I was) and look at the old pictures and point out my grandparents and great grandparents. It was nice to see pictures of the biogrands but I didn't feel a connection with them at all."

But you saw the pics and obviously looked for a connection, but couldn't see one. You were fortunate to have had the opportunity to learn your ethnic heritage. How many adoptees are still trying to do that?

I didn't see a connection when I saw pictures of my grandmother or relatives; it was actually many years later when it hit me how much I look like my g-mother when she was 17. When you are raised with your people, and know the stories and hear people say you look like this one or inherited a trait from that one....there's a connection....there are ethnic traditions that families partake in that brings one closer to their ethnic's easy to feel connected, and probably not given a single thought about what it would be like not to have those connections.

Adoptees, however, don't hear or see any people with whom they are genetically related until adulthood. It takes time to feel connected to a family and ancestry.

petunia said...

You are all so ready to be angry you read in to what I say whatever you want to read.
First of all - I quoted someone NOT using her name or blog address. What the person wrote made me think. I didn't think the point she was trying to make held true so I wrote about it on my own blog. It wasn't a slam against her point of view...I just didn't agree. The only trainwrecks I see are the mean people who come on my blog and make cruel comments.
I don't recall EVER going on other people's blogs and being mean...I have written my opinion and tried to be an adult...I don't say what's popular but because I don'y have the same opinion as someone - that doesn't make me mean.
If you have not taken me out of context you know I am very civil with my bioparents and searched for them myself out of a sense of obligation to thank them and to find out health things and apease my curiosity about what everyone looked like. Everone has their own reasons for looking...mine was not because I felt any bond with them...they are all friends now. I did NOT feel a connection - I feel a connection with my aparents and the family.

What is wrong with you people?

Anonymous said...

Yes, but you insulted Joy and her aparents. You quoted her directly from her blog and then you insulted her and them. And you still owe her an apology.

BB Church said...

"I don't say what's popular but because I don'y have the same opinion as someone - that doesn't make me mean."

Ah, c'mon Petunia, embrace your inner meanie! You know, I blog, post to alt.adoption, write articles, etc., and I can be extremely mean. I don't apologize for it, it's what I do, it's who I am. But at least I know when I'm putting it to somebody.