Thursday, May 10, 2007

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

I think fear is the first reason for people to make up stories and cast aspersions. That's okay, maybe people will learn from the stupid things they say. When there is nothing else they can say, they make something up. It's sad really. It's usually just "one itty bitty adoptee" that does it anyway.

These are all things I could have written myself...I guess others do feel the same as I do.

One poster on the Adoption Oasis forum said:
I have never understood why some adoptees become so angry with, and bitter towards, adoptive parents, on line -- and in real life. It's beyond my comprehension. In instances, where I've seen it occur, I always find myself so saddened and disturbed. I, personally, can't begin to wrap my head around how anyone could be so bitter and angry toward people who are trying their level best to do what's best in the life of a child.
It happens when someone fails to show common courtesy and respect. It happens when one side feels that their side is the only side -- the only way to see things. It happens when people fail to understand that generalizations aren't the way to express feelings and emotions and circumstances. It happens when people don't listen to one another......and only "hear" what they want to "hear" in another's words. It happens when people want to live out the "misery loves company" way of thinking -- they are unhappy and frustrated with their own individual situation, therefore, they want to make others miserable and unhappy right along with them.

Another said:
It's the attitude that SOME adoptee's have that because they have had problems in their life that our children today will have the same problems. They talk as if what happened to them, happens to all adopted children and they talk as if what they felt, our children will feel.
Still another:
but with some of the anti-attutidues out there, and things that i have read, i have to wonder how much is self-hatred....

29 comments:

readerofblogs said...

petunia, it is YOU who generalizes and you are the one who does NOT listen to the other side. it is your happy koolaid way or the highway to you. i can't believe you don't see that it is YOU you are talking about! CLUELESS. most cases it is NOT about the best interest of the child!! that is not the truth. it is just a different life for the child. adoption is a permanent solution to a temporay situation. UNLESS you are adopting an older child from an abusive situation.

Paula O. said...

If I may ask, why do you feel the need to be so mean?

The tone, the apparent intentions, the coy little digs to try and incite people, just seems mean.

Please help me try to understand.

petunia said...

haha, I'm mean? That is just funny to me. This is MY blog and these peole leave comments like the one above and you ask how I can be so mean? :) funny
I don't go on their blogs and leave comments....
readerofblogs likes to stir the pot, it doesn't really bother me.

MomEtc. said...

I'd also like to know why people feel the need to be mean. I agreed with Petunia on a point (that all adoptees have different experiences and should be entitled to voice them without being attacked by other adoptees) and I was called an evil Wiccan. Readerofblogs, why don't you shed some light on why you feel the need to do this.

Tishslp said...

Great points, Petunia. And TAO is a GREAT forum.....I really enjoy the exchange of ideas in an encouraging and supportive environment. What a pleasant change!!

ani said...

It is so nice that you have found a couple of like minded people as yourself to converse with Petunia.

hmm Momect, a wiccan huh, cool.

Makes me wonder what Petunia really thinks of you, I mean she can be farely harsh herself of anyone who does not agree with her opinion,, she is a "Christian" you know and you know what they think of you "Witches"

I mean I have seen her get down right nasty with the best of them. she is a good read though if I don't say so myself.

ani

petunia said...

That's the thing ani,
I can agree to disagree with people. This is not a blog about religion. Mometc. and I can disagree on that and not talk about it. I also believe that homosexuality is wrong but I can have plesant conversation with peole who I know are homosexual. In my posting I have never told the other adoptees they are not allowed to feel the way they do - I have said that we are not all of the same mindset and that bothers them.
I have never told a biomom that she is not allowed to grieve the loss of a child or be sad that they are not with them....a woman would be heartless to not feel anything.
I think people like to read into what I write.

And ani, if you go to adoption Oasis...(i gave a link a while back) most of the people on the forum feel the same way...there are over 400 members....I only copied a few things. Check it out

MomEtc. said...

Ani, what bothers me is when people tell others they don't have a right to their feelings.

I don't know that Petunia and I are "like-minded". I don't really know Petunia that well, but I don't like to see anyone made fun of or beaten up. As I get to know Petunia better I may well find that we are very un-like minded. That's fine.

Julie said...

Mometc said "I don't like to see anyone made fun of or beaten up." So then I don't understand why you read Petunia's blog which does just that. She goes to one person's blog in particular and then denigrates the blogger's feelings and tears them apart here, virtually shaming her for feeling the way she does. Numerous times - in fact, 3 of her last 5 posts.

Petunia is making generalizations and ridiculous extrapolations, and then crying "victim!"!?!

BTW, Paula O. asked why you, Petunia, feel the need to be so mean - and you only addressed people's comments and not what you say in your blog posts. Let's start with your hate lists...

I have a suggestion, Petunia. Stop blogging for a while and just read for a week. Read the current research about mother/child separation and the effects on the child, on brain development, on emotional development. I have a ton of well-researched articles on my blog.

Tishslp said...

See, what I fail to understand is this...if you don't like what is written on someone's blog, why are you reading it? It can only irritate and annoy you and to do that, day after day, doesn't seem emotionally healthy.

A few months back, I left a forum because of this. There were a group of women, albeit small,
who I was feeling pretty negative about. I felt about them, Julie, like you seem to feel about Petunia. So, I left. Fortunately for me, I found a forum to replace it and then some. Now, I'm very happy to be involved with a couple of forums where people seem to understand, and stick to, the rules of respectful dialogue. It's much healthier, it seems to me.

I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic at all. I just really don't understand......why argue about it? Seems like a waste of time when you could be doing something more productive with your passion....

Julie said...

You know what, tishsip, you're right. I have better and more constructive ways to spend my time (which mostly I'm doing) than banging my head against a brick wall. I came here only because I am concerned about a dear friend of mine. Only took me a couple of minutes. Still you're right and, anyway, my questions have been answered manifold. Very sad.

MomEtc. said...

Julie - I don't know Petunia's blog well enough to know of her relationship with that other blogger. You mention 3 of the last 5 posts, so I think I can figure out who you mean. The two of them have to work that out together. I'm not involved in that. If it's the person I think you are talking about, I don't want to see her hurt or made fun of either. That ain't my cup of tea.

ani said...

umm P have been to the adoption

"OASIS"

have been a member since it started. I find it no Oasis

but I won't get into that, that is old news among some of us.

and mom I do not like to see anyone getting a pounding either, someone mentioned to me that my comment was actually like attacking you,, when I said

you witches, I thought it was pretty clear I was being sarcastic but maybe it did not come across that way. You know some are sensitive about stuff. I want to make sure you did not take it the wrong way.

I suppose I understand the stigma that goes along with the wiccan religion as I have looked deeply into it for my self. So when I said, "You know how some Christian feel about you Witches"

I am hoping that the sarcasm was pretty clear, and you understood me. I find it plain silly personally how todays Christians are so afraid of pagan beliefs.I love the pagan beliefs, so hope you know and saw my sarcasm.

Anyhow the other stuff,, to each his own,

Tishslp I said I enjoy reading P's blog, she does not upset me at all. I highly dissagree with everything she writes, but she is interesting to say the least, I can always get a good giggle hear and there,


ani

Tishslp said...

I guess what I was saying is that this is one person's blog....it's not like it's a thread in a forum where you have to see their comments every time you log in. You have to specifically type in their address EVERY time you come here, knowing that much of what they write is not within your belief system.

If you don't come to the blog, you won't read the comments. You won't even KNOW what P is writing and it will save you the trouble if, indeed, it is annoying or irritating to you.

If TAO is "no oasis", why go there? If your personal opinion is that you are right and the others there are wrong, why waste your time? Could your passion for adoption reform be put to better use in a different way than butting heads?

On the other hand, if it's funny to you to come to someone's blog and leave nasty messages, well then that's something altogether different.

And yes, I AM like minded with Petunia; at least what I've read of her blog so far. That's WHY I come here. If I want people to challenge my opinions or to find out more about views that differ from mine, I know where I can go. And I do.

I know I've addressed your comments primarily, Ani, but it really isn't about YOU....it's more of a general question b/c I really don't understand the motivation behind a nasty message.....

MomEtc. said...

Ani - please don't worry! I understand how you meant it. It's fine to call most of us "witches" (most Wiccans identify as witches). Heck, you even capitalized the word and called us cool!

petunia said...

I read alot of blogs about adoption... some are on one side and some are on the other. There are all diffrerent feelings about the subject. When I read a blog that gets me thinking I write something about it. Joy is another adoptee and sometimes makes me think....other blogs do that too but no one gets upset when I write about it. I think it usets people when you disagree with them and they have a tendancy to call it "mean".

Julie, I understand you being a "protective mother" but what I say on my blog is not mean. I'm flattered that you have read that far back on my blog...I guess you took my "what I hate lists" as something mean....but if you read them in context you will see that they are funny lists of things...

I guess anyone can try to put whatever spin they want to on my thoughts I write here....that's up to you. I know how I mean the things I write and that's all that's important, I'm not trying to impress anyone or remain politically correct.

Bloggers put their views and ideas out there on cyberspace, you choose to read them. I have read research on mother/child seperation and brain developement. I actually did my thesis for grad school on something similar. I also know you can support any view with selected research. (Research is only as good as the researcher.) I will continue to read however and I appreciate you listing those on your blog.

And ani, is OASIS not your cup of tea because people disagree with how you see adoption? Most everyone on the forum is polite, understanding and will not treat anyone with disrespect no matter their view... but they do have a more positive view on adoption than most of the negative bloggers.

petunia said...

I read alot of blogs about adoption... some are on one side and some are on the other. There are all diffrerent feelings about the subject. When I read a blog that gets me thinking I write something about it. Joy is another adoptee and sometimes makes me think....other blogs do that too but no one gets upset when I write about it. I think it usets people when you disagree with them and they have a tendancy to call it "mean".

Julie, I understand you being a "protective mother" but what I say on my blog is not mean. I'm flattered that you have read that far back on my blog...I guess you took my "what I hate lists" as something mean....but if you read them in context you will see that they are funny lists of things...

ani said...

Tish,, I am afraid you missed the very first sentence in my post to P,,

here it is again,,

umm P have been to the adoption

"OASIS"


note the word ,,BEEN. That means I have been there. I do not visit the adoption "oasis" and have no plans to return. Again it is no "oasis" in my opinion. But a heavily moderated forum that holds only one side of the triad beliefs and feelings. Kinda like some bloggers, they have one stand that adoption is just one big happy party.

Anyways, sorry it's just not a place for me. As you put it, why waste my time. Well I don't,, and wouldn't! Don't take it personally if thats your forum it's just not for me. We all have our fav's, it just is not one of mine. I don't expect anyone to take on my personal views of adoption. You seem to be very familiar with me. hmmm,,, interesting. I have strong views that adoptive parents have a huge role in changing adoption and I also believe that as a parent to an adoptee I would do everything in my power to make sure I had a voice in opening my childs records, and so on,, most aparents do not like me for this, they do not want that pressure, seems they think that is putting them on some pedestal. Or making them take on some grand reform challenges. No! I just wish for you all to have a voice in making adoption the most ethical and fair system.. Much can be done, noone can agrue that with me. EAch voice makes a difference.

If you have a child whos adopted then it is your responsibility to them, not me! God knows I would have thanked my parents for it. I would scream to the ends of the earth to give my child the rights of another,, and for my fellow adoptees who would like to have a copy of their origanol bc. I will continue to blog, speak out, work towards that change.

oh and welcome to the internet, whether you like it or not, your going to run into people who don't think like you do, especially in adoption. A lesson I learned the hard way..and I think that P knows this as well. You need to be thick skinned.

I tend to stay in the middle somewhere. I like equality where it comes to adoption. I have a great adoption story. Get to know me and you will read it. Oh but you do know me I feel fairly confident you do know me ,,actually I have a feeling you know me fairly well. I also have loss, dont tell me to weigh the gain with the loss, I say this often,, but if you know me like I think you do,,

you know this don't you..

oh yes MomE my grammar and spelling suck. Actually it is horrid, but yes I did say cool. and I meant it,,I hope one day all the generalizing will fizzle out. Just because I used the word cool,, does not mean I think it is some game,, It is a serious practice, I realized how serious in my reading and brief studying of it. Actually it was to much for me to take on, you need to be very dedicated. Your heart dedicated as well, it is much respected by me and to much for me to just novicly take it on. That would be unfair, wrong.

But back to Ps blog, as I said, I may not agree one bit with Ps blog entries, but that does not mean I am not going to come and read it.
She does not seem to have an issue with the fact some of us disagree. She continues to read our blogs and comment here about them as well. MY goodness she has even quoted me in one of her posts a few back. She just recently pasted a quote from Joys blog.
I think P would agree that when she reads certain bloggers she highly disagrees with some of the adoption views they hold,,it is her blog and her right to have any opinion she wants. But if she quotes from my blog and brings it here, puts it in negative light or the blogger in a negative light then you can bet there is going to be contriversy.
Again it is the internet, what do you expect, you write it, not everyone is going to agree with it it.

ani

ani said...

P, I metioned in my post about the adoption oasis being heavily moderated and only one side of the triad represented, I prefer more deversity.

I feel it is a more realistic view of adoption. Not all adoptions are held in a positive light, just like not all adoptions are held in a negative light

ani

petunia said...

If people put something out there in the internet...it can be copied, pasted, scrutinized and even misquoted. If I want to use an idea off someone else's blog I can--i never take credit for it or misquote - i even have been discreet about where I got it - If Joy wants me to list her name and link from now on I will...i do that for anyone else but I can sure do it if she prefers.

In the world of adoption the OASIS is the more realistic view. My whole beef about the blog world is that it's a small group of people that have had bad experiences - as real as they are - they are not a realistic view of adoption as a whole....hate having to keep saying there are 6-10 million adoptees out there but....

ani said...

Will again we will have to agree to disagree on both subjects, the Adoptoin Oasis and just the happy/unhappy status of the 6-10 million adoptees out there, one will truelly ever know. I would never claim to speak for all of them. That truelly would be ignorant on my part. Also unfair. I suppose I fall in the angry/unhappy catagory to you P,, and that speaks true of unjust generalizations. I just can not do that to 6-10 million adoptees I do not know.

Yes P you have every right to paste other peoples blog entries onto your blog. I mean please feel free to paste anything you would like from mine and discuss it here. As you have in the past.

I would just hope in the future you choose to do so in a more respectfull manor then you chose to do so with Joy.

But again we all have choices right.

Like the choice to disagree, we certainly have no issues there now do we. I will leave it at that now, hate to make a huge arguement of it, after all its just dialogue and opinions or is it.

ani

petunia said...

ani, thank you. I appreciate your views and I do respect them. We can agree to disagree. One thing we do agree on is I do want to see all records open...although I do think it should be when an adoptee turns 18 or 21 or if there is a medical reason.

Tishslp said...

Ani,

"have been a member since it started"

The 'have been' part of your statement indicates to me that you are ongoing in your membership.

Of course there will be people that disagree with me; on the Net and IRL. Of course there will be people who have a different opinion of adoption, in fact, there will be a lot of differing opinions. All I was, and am, saying is it's Petunia's blog and she can write what she wants. She doesn't need to change her position because others disagree.

I, for one, appreciate reading the blogs of like-minded people where I can find the support and empathy that we all need. As I said before, if I want to be challenged, I know where to go.

Ani, despite your claims of familiarity, I am not sure who you are. My name is Tisha as is indicated, partially, in my screen name. It would probably be easier if you simply identified yourself as well, rather than leaving me cryptic messages about your identity.

petunia said...

tisha,
I'm so glad you come by and we are so like minded...for some it's hard to believe we feel the way we do. It's nice to know there are a few more in the blogworld. You are welcome anytime.

ani said...

umm ok my name is Ani,,my user name is Ani.

I use it on all the forums,, everyone just calls me Ani. Or you might find me as anifish if you search the forum for user name, but people/freinds call me Ani on forums.

So I hope that helps you figure out the crptic message I am sending. Weird but ok,,

OH Andi is my real name and my nickname is Ani. Just want to make sure you get all this,,would hate for you to feel so confused again.

It is really very simple,
My identity is Ani, female adoptee in reunion for 1 year
Ani, a name father has called me that since I was a little girl.

ani as in anifish or andi, or my full name is andrea louise ,, hate the louise part,now that has to make things not so hard or complicated. Hope that helps but I still have to wonder, I am a skeptic. One of my worst habits is not believing most of what people say. I have a protective nature what can I say.. plus people can be so dishonest on the internet,
you know trolls and such.

Night,,ani

Tishslp said...

Thanks, Petunia! I'm glad I found you, too. Your blogs point out a lot of the things I feel, too, and it's great that people are posting positive things about adoption on the net. There is need for reform, but there are MANY positives about adoption, too. It's unbalanced to present only one side....

Ani, I still have no idea who you are. Perhaps you are projecting some paranoia onto me? I know no one named ani, anifish, andi, andrea louise or ani anything. Sorry.

ani said...

No problem tish.
You asked and I told you.

I am Ani,

No need for paranoia we are not trying to solve the earths mysterys here, yikes now that is drama. I see no reason for dramatics.

If you did not know me the ok. No need for paranoia. I mean I would not know anyways it you did. You tell me you don't so no big deal. Even if you did know me, makes no difference here does it.

P I will continue to check in every few weeks or so, like I said I enjoy reading your blog even if we comes from differents points of view.

ani

Tishslp said...

No problem, Ani. It's well-settled then.

Tishslp said...

Sorry if I misunderstood you....